Aircraft Wreckage in Snowdonia

Today Neil Pugh from uk.rec.walking kindly emailed me some scans of a list of aircraft wrecks in Snowdonia, which he found in a second hand book. The scans list 47 crash sites from 1942 to 1957 in the area of responsibility of RAF Valley. Actually, number 17 is missing, so there are only 46, and some of them are of the same plane, so there are probably only 43. Also, some seem to be just rumours.

I’ve just finished transcribing these scans and the results are below. For the sake of accuracy, I’ve copied the information exactly as it was written, so I’ve included the spelling mistakes. Some of it was very difficult to read though, so some of the spelling mistakes may be my own fault!

Please bear in mind that many of these wrecks are classed as war graves, and removing anything from these sites is illegal.

~ PAGE 1~

MOUNTAIN RESCUE TEAM

AIRCRAFT WRECKAGE IN THE AREA OF RESPONSIBILITY OF R.A.F. VALLEY.

Mountain Group.
Mountain, Cwm, etc.
Height & Map.ref. of Pt. of Impact
Aircraft type
Date of crash.

CARNEDDAU

1. Pen yr Oleu wen 3,100′ 107/656620 Anson 9.11.43.
Large pieces at 659621, and bits spread down into Cwm Lloer (eastern corner) almost to lake.

2. Pen yr Oleu wen 3,000′ 107/659626 Ventura 18.8.43.
Much burnt small pieces at P. of I. Large pieces spread down 750′ into Cwm (North east corner).

3. Pen yr Oleu wen 2,250′ 107/666621 Havoc 17.10.42.
Centre section & gun mounting. Eng. mounting in stream at 665622. Engine remains at 661621.

4. Carnedd Dafydd 3,200′ 107/667629 Havoc 17.10.42.
Near the summit. Large part of a/c still intact. Easily visible.

5. Carnedd Dafydd 1,650′ 107/665639 Havoc 17.10.42.
Tail appendage of above aircraft.

6. Carnedd Llewelyn - Craig yr Ysfa 2,600′ 107/692639 Blenheim 9.4.40.
Two engines & large pieces scattered down to 694639

7. Carnedd Llewelyn - Cwm Llafar 2,850′ 107/679638 Lincoln 13.3.50.
Three hundred feet below the ridge, extending 100 x down stream. Outer main planes, engines & rear fuselage easily visible.
At 676634 bits of wing walkway in stream.

8. Foel Grach 2,850′ 107/692665 Wellington
Small pieces of geodetic construction only.

9. Foel Grach 2,850 107/691666 Anson 31.11.43.
Engines and bits of fuselage in the head of the stream running towards Llynn Dulyn.

10. Foel Grach - Craig Dulyn 2,000′ 107/698667 Dakota (C.47) 22.11.44.
In July 1949 much of the wreckage was dislodged into the lake. Some is jammed in a gully on the cliff face.

11. Foel Fras 2,600′ 107/699675 Anson 12.7.44.
Tail end of fuselage. Pieces scattered both sides of wall, mostly on south.

12. Foel Fras 107/697678 (C/F) Anson 23.8.43.

13. Llwydmor 2,250′ 107/679690 Botha 31.8.43.
Large pieces, part of engine nacelle, hydraulic jacks & pipes.

14. Llwydmor 1,800′ 107/692702 Junkers Ju 88 17.6.41.
Bits scattered over a wide area between 690704, 694703, 692698 & 688700.

15. Bere Mawr 1,750′ 107/678689 Auster 21.10.56.
Burnt out airframe & engine.

16. Carnedd Dafydd - Gilfach Felen 107/660644 Wellington ? 28.7.42.
Small pieces. (see also 676634 no. 7.)

~ PAGE 2 ~

18 Drum 2200 107/71636925 Mosquito 25.9.44.
fair amount of wreckage in gully

19 Drum 2000 715698 (CF) Anson 25.4.44.
very small bits

20 Drum 1600 721700
scattered pieces

21 Drum 1250 725706
more scattered pieces

22 Pen Llithrig y Wrach 1850 727638 Anson 20.2.44.
fair amount of large bits, well scattered about rocky outcrops, dural shess in quantities, might be visible from some distance

23 Pen Llithrig y Wrach - Moel Eilio (Cwm Eigiau) 1600 727646 Vampire 19.4.56.
Nearly every piece removed for investigation

24 Mount Cornel, Crafnant 1100 746599 Anson 5.2.45.
scattered over 200x, camouflaged & yellow pieces, but not easily seen

25 Penmaen Mawr Mountain 1275 716745 Liberator 7.1.44.
small bits airframe etc.

GLYDERS

26 Y Garn 3000 628598 Marauder 2.2.45.
small bits. a/c went over ridge into Cwm Cwyion, quid video

27 Y Garn - Cwm Cwyion 2750 632601 same Marauder
lot of large chunks, fairly visible

28 Elydir Fawr 2500 611613 Beaufighter
wreckage spread down hillside 300x. Helcules eng. twin oleo u/c

29 Mynydd Perfedd 2400 62556225 Anson 8.6.44.

SNOWDON

30 Crib y Ddisgl 2800 608557 Anson 11.8.52.
bits of wreckage spread round the upper part of Cwm Bwrynog

31 Llechog - Cwm Clogwyn 2200 600542
3 small pieces of alloy control surfaces in old ruined cottage

32 Yr Aran 1750 ? 603525 ?

~ PAGE 3 ~

WESTERN SNOWDON

33 Craig Cwm Silin 1200 107/520507 Anson 20.11.43.
small pieces of allow & cylinders from Cheetah engine

34 Craig Cwm Silin 1700 518502 Hurricane
small bits scattered from below Sunset Rib to the lake at 518505

35 Mynydd Tal y Mignedd Lysander
local talk. either in cwm y ffynnon or the one to the south.

36 Moel Hebog 2000 568470 Anson 13.6.44.
molten metal & fair amount wreckage scattered amongst crags below Upper Cliff.

37 Bryniau Ystum Cegid 580 504417 Halifax 31.8.44.
tiny bits tucked away in walls & ditches of agricultural land.

38 Mynydd Mawr 2000 54255525 Mosquito 1.11.44.
large wing section, u/c & eng. bearers. bits spread down hillside.

39 Mynydd Mawr 2100 539547 Vampire 12.10.56.
scattered across top of mountain.

40 Mynydd Mawr local talk Messerschmidt ?

41 Bangor Caernarvon road, 1 m from C Parkia farm. Anson 497645 4.9.43.
exploded in mid air

THE RIVALS

42 Yr Eifl 1150 115/369454 Halifax 3.9.44.
small bits spread down hillside to 371456 where are several large pieces at the foot of the crag and by the wall.

43 Yr Eifl quarry 1000 362461 Firefly 371454 Meteor 11.10.57.

MOELWYNS

44 Cwm Edno 1150 107/670520 Dakota 10.1.52.
tail appendage. remainder in hole in bog. easily visible from air, in fenced enclosure of consecrated ground

DENBIGH MOORS

45 Moel Modior 1280 108/978680 Wellington 27.1.44.
most of wreckage cleared. small pieces over hilltop (farmed)

46 Rhyd y Bedd 1250 108/916591 Thunderbolt 8.7.44.
crater & small pieces scattered 200 x around

47 Llangerniew 750 107/864674 Lancaster 6.7.43.
crater in agricultural land. possibly odd pieces alloy about.

I didn’t realise there were so many pieces of wreckage in Snowdonia alone! Do you have pictures of these to match each of the sites? I’d imagine that a gallery on your website just for this purpose would be a good idea, and you can get photos at the same time as you plan in various trips to these areas.

Pictures? Hey gimme a chance! I only got the list yesterday! :-)

To be honest, aircraft wrecks are not my speciality, and there are other websites devoted to this kind of thing that probably do a much better job than I could. Also, from the sites I have visited, I know that most have very little worth photographing.

I’ll certainly take photos when the opportunity presents itself, but I wouldn’t go too far out of my way just to find a few scraps of aluminium, so I’ll probably only bother to look for the larger sites.

I’ll note your suggestion about having a photo gallery though, thanks.

Don’t just note the suggestion though Paul, action it too - I want to see pictures! ;-)

Number 11 isn’t where the GR says it is, but it is either side of the wall. Probably 2-300m up the hill, large parts of it around 20-30 m to the left of the top end of the wall.

Number 9 was also easily located. Some photo’s should be on our blog shortly, link in website above.

Cheers

Iain

Thanks for the update Iain. I’ll look forward to seeing the pics.

This list is almost the same as one I bought at RAF StAthan airshow, about 1976. It covers all of wales, but is now out of date as so much wreckage has been removed. I remember a big display of black and white photos of the wrecks which motivated me and my Dad to go looking for the crash sites. i would to see those photos again! The group who produced the list and had the display was the South wales aircraft preservation group. I bought a section of Spitfire aileron for 30p which as a scholboy was and still is a prized possession!

Hi. I am part of a group who have been recording crash sites in Snowdonia for several years and as someone already said this list is rather out of date,much of the wreckage has been removed in the 1970’s and 80’s by so called aviation recovery groups who have unfortunatly since scrapped most of it. All military aircraft crash sites are now protected by law(the protection of military remains act) and under the act it is an offence for anyone to tamper with,damage,move,remove or unearth any part of a crashed military aircraft. We have been working with land owners including the Snowdonia National Park and The National Trust in an attempt to ensure the wreckage which does remain is not removed and I would ask anyone who sees someone removing wreckage or disturbing a site to call the police and the local national park warden. These sites are an important part of our history,they are also all too often the place where someone died and I would urge anyone visiting them to show respect and leave them as found.

I’ve researched most of the sites in Snowdonia, and it’s sad to say that this list covers only a fraction of the ones for this area. Well under than a half … Also, it either gets many of the relationships wrong, or gives wildly inaccurate maprefs. Some examples - No 14 is a Heinkel 111, crashed 14-04-41 - No 24 is an Oxford, crashed 13-01-45 - No 28 marks the summit of the mountain, half-way between a Blenheim and a Skua, not a Beaufighter. The worst part is - the remains have mostly been removed, not so much by interested groups, but by the Snowdonia Park authority itself in a “tidy up” opperation. So much for marking and remebering the places where so many young men perished.

Hi Jan,

The Snowdonia National Park did indeed remove some wreckage from sites in Snowdonia in the early 1980’s but this was largely instigated by a “recovery group” and was not a widespread SNP policy,certainly the SNP would not now condone the removal of wreckage. Unfortunatly the myth that the park regard the wreckage as “an eyesore” has been used by some as an excuse for further removal. I have compiled a list of wreckage removed from sites in Snowdonia in the last 40 years and the majority was removed by “recovery groups” often without MOD or landowners permission and the unfortunate fact is most of the wreckage recovered has not been preserved.

hi just to drop in some notes have pics of the sites and will try to get them on line !the hurricane on Craig Cwm Silin is a henley just been to the site and some remains are still to be seen not much ! the meteor site on the rivals has no visible remains but the impact scar is shocking to see and the liberator number 25
is worth a visit the memorial on site is very moving but pls be careful what you pick up at this site it was near an old mortar range and numbers of e.o.d.s have been found i stumbled on 2 of these !!
pls just look dont take as i went to the wellington site on lake vynwy ther was much to see and then some one cleared the site with a metal detector a real shame!!